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Stop Being The Victim, Do Something About It!
Posted by Andrew on Friday, September 10 @ 10:00:00 EDT
Contributed by jxu
Dating and Sexuality By JXu
Special to ModelMinority.com
July 2004

Let me share some personal experience with my fellow Asian men. We have seen a lot of anger in Asian men toward their Asian female sisters for choosing White men over them. I have the same feelings as well. There was a time when I was naive enough to think that if I treat my Asian sisters with more care and respect than their white boyfriends, and pretent to be perfectly comfortable with being taken for granted and discriminated against by Asian women, that eventually they will treat us with the same respect.

Once I went skydiving with an Asian female friend. She brought two of her friends, both male, one Asian, one Cauasian. Somehow the my friend was assigned to the same airplane with her Asian friend to jump at the same time, leaving me and the Caucasian friend together. My female friend corrected the "mistake" promptly by announcing that she was with her Caucasian boyfriend. The woman working there looked at her, then gave me and the other Asian guy a curious stare for a few seconds, as if to say that she shouldn't have been blamed for getting it wrong.

In a casual conversation, a white male colleague, who was married to a Korean woman, told me how popular he was among Korean women being six foot two with blond hair, and how many Asian women he had dated before he got married. The only thing on my mind was "what the hell did I do to deserve being told right to my face how our women love white guys? I did not sign up for this."

I have tons more of stories on this subject which I won't bother to tell here. I want to deal with the cause of this disturbing phenomena. It has existed for decades, but in the past 10 years, it has intensified even more. Partly because of the media that constantly portraits Asian men with ridiculous, talentless, unflattering images like William Hung. However the main reason is within ourselves. My conclusion is that in Asian culture, there is a very strong desire to conform, to be part of the dominant group. While African, Latino and Jewish Americans struggled for years to promote their own unique identity and culture, Asian Americans have been trying very hard to get rid of our own to be more "Westernized" and "Americanized". The Hip-hop culture we see today in mainstream America was once ridiculed as uncivilized by the very same society less than a decade ago. Today we see many Hollywood figures proudly announcing their Jewish heritage.

Now look at the Asian community. How proud are we to be Asian? Many Asian parents are happy to see their children associating only with white kids. There is an implicit rule that to be American is to be white. It follows that those of us who are "unfortunate" enough to look different, can only be upgraded to be more American when we date white people. The term "model minority" is a direct result of our culture that promotes conformity over ethnic identity. While it is true that it did bring financial rewards and social recognition for some individual Asian Americans such as Connie Chung and Lucy Liu, the overall Asian American community has suffered greatly, both in terms of opportunities and respect for our people as a whole.

So what can we do about it? we must change our thinking from within. We must get rid of the wrong idea that to be American means to be white. That means we should not laugh at African Americans for being Black, because our kids are now following their white friends to become the Hip-Hop generation. That means we should celebrate our culture and our heritage. Mainstream America knows us for our marshall arts, but we should not hide the other wonderful aspects of the Asian culture. We are a very smart people, well educated and rational. That is nothing to be ashamed of just because Holywood says it is nerdy.

There is one most important thing that we should do to counter the fact that many Asian American women are tossing away their own people and the dignity of the Asian community for acceptance. As friends, we must let them know that it is unacceptable. No true friendships can be built onpun discrimination, especially against her own people. Over the past two years I have broken off friendships with three Asian women who had chosen to white men over their Asian brothers. As parents, you should seriously reconsider your unconditional approval of your daughter's discriminating choice of color when it comes to picking a boyfriend, for your son may very well be the victim of exactly the same kind of discrimination.

For those who choose to do nothing, keep complaining, and let the betrayal continue, I can only say "too bad."

 
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Re: Stop Being The Victim, Do Something About It! (Score: 1)
by Seraphfire on Friday, September 10 @ 11:14:59 EDT
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A funny thought came to me while watching Sex in the City reruns with my wife:

"Are Asian male friends of DQ Asian females becoming what the gay male friends are to straight women? Someone safe to hangout with and talk about their WM boyfriends?"

"Or is having Asian male friends the excuse DQ Asian females use to show that they are still in tune with Asian culture?"

Either, shouldn't AMs feel a bit used? I agree with the author, you almost never gain the respect of females (of any race) from a dating perspective if you become their friend. You just become their straight Asian "gay male friend."

P.S. BTW, this happens to men of any race.



Re: Stop Being The Victim, Do Something About It! (Score: 1)
by mahod on Friday, September 10 @ 12:59:55 EDT
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Asian American men will continue to be an easy target in America until we can create and control our own media. Repect is not given in American society. It has to be fought for.



Re: Stop Being The Victim, Do Something About It! (Score: 1)
by DalaiWu on Friday, September 10 @ 15:00:52 EDT
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"The woman working there looked at her, then gave me and the other Asian guy a curious stare for a few seconds, as if to say that she shouldn't have been blamed for getting it wrong."

…Is it not ironic that the White woman immediately assumed that something was wrong?

However, I have seen many incidents where AF's with WM's ARE assumed to be together in public situations; that it is without question that they are together. On the other hand, there have been many instances when I have been with WW—even friends—and sales associates, host, club members, etc., assume that we are not together. "May I help you?", will be asked of her, immediately after they ask me. It is quite amusing to see a WW dress down said individual after saying, "We are together".


"In a casual conversation, a white male colleague, who was married to a Korean woman, told me how popular he was among Korean women being six foot two with blond hair, and how many Asian women he had dated before he got married."

....What is really rude, are the questions that WM's friends who are involved with AF's ask; "'What does she do in bed?'; ‘Is she better?'; 'Is it true they go like this?'" (As they draw a horizontal line in the air—meaning that AF's vulvae are horizontal rather than vertical); and the list goes on. Most of the time, these AF's never know that their soon to become friends thought of them in this manner before she and her WM lover/spouse became serious. After all, what WM partner would tell her so, for fear that she would later reject his friends?


"Partly because of the media that constantly portraits Asian men with ridiculous, talentless, unflattering images like William Hung. However the main reason is within ourselves."

...All of you really need to ignore the White mass media. Self-esteem comes from your upbringing. If your home environment is more influential than your outside environment, then this will not be a problem. For example, there are many inner city youths of color who manage to still be good students, citizens, grow-up go to college, and lead productive lives. Granted, the percentage is not high, but if they can do it, so can we.

"Now look at the Asian community. How proud are we to be Asian? Many Asian parents are happy to see their children associating only with white kids."

…Is this actually true? My children would never dishonor our families future in this manner; and I have never met a Chinese parent who thought that way. Maybe I am only very fortunate. The only parents that I have met anywhere near that philosophy are those who are resigned to the fact after their child has made that choice and as parents of adult children, believe that they have no choice.

"There is an implicit rule that to be American is to be white. It follows that those of us who are "unfortunate" enough to look different, can only be upgraded to be more American when we date white people."

…Again, I attribute that to a poor upbringing. That comes from growing-up in a home where traditions and language were not adhered to. Basically, children who think like that, have negligent parents.

"As parents, you should seriously reconsider your unconditional approval..."

…For those parents out there who are actually like that, I hope that their half-breed grandchildren put them into a nursing home instead of moving them into their own house to take care of their elders—like most White people and especially JAPpy Jews do.

How is that for a reward for unconditional acceptance...Psych!!!



Re: Stop Being The Victim, Do Something About It! (Score: 1)
by LivBoring (pwetzel@hotmail.com) on Friday, September 10 @ 23:50:15 EDT
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"My female friend corrected the "mistake" promptly by announcing that she was with her Caucasian boyfriend. "


Did she say, "I am with my white boyfriend, dont associate me with the asian"

or did she say " I am with my boyfriend, you ***** ! You cant get my boyfriend" ?



Re: Stop Being The Victim, Do Something About It! (Score: 1)
by TopoftheWorld on Sunday, September 12 @ 20:18:05 EDT
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Hahaha!!!!! You forgot to mention Asian Men who project Strong and Powerful images of being on top. Remember Bruce Lee? Married Caucasian woman. His pupils included Steve McQueen, James Coburn, and Kareem Abdul-Jabbar. Others at the top: Yao Ming, Jackie Chan, Jet Li, Liu Xian (2004 Gold medalist 110m hurdles beating out Caucasians and Blacks!!!), Ichiro Suzuki, Gary Locke(governor of WA), etc... BOTTOM LINE: from personal experience: Asian women who prefer white men are usually ugly!!! I've dated Asians, Hispanics, whites, and black women and I say the most important thing is inner substance & character NOT skin color.



Re: Stop Being The Victim, Do Something About It! (Score: 1)
by flash on Wednesday, September 15 @ 19:42:57 EDT
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The racism you display is astounding!

Many AF have told me that they date white guys because Asian men are sexist pigs and white guys know how to treat them better.

Asian men believe in "traditional" customs and roles for women. Asian women don't want this anymore. They would rather be with white guys who grew up with mothers who demanded equal rights and taught their sons to respect women.

The Asian tradition you glorify that leads to the mass slaughter of little Chinese girls is the same tradition that leads the lucky girls who survive into adulthood to find caring white men to date/marry.

So, stop the racism against whites and look inward.




To Flash: Re: Stop Being The Victim, Do Something About It! (Score: 1)
by DalaiWu on Wednesday, September 15 @ 20:42:41 EDT
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1- You have obviously never been to China; speak what you know.
2- If you are White, please explain to me what your traditions are for taking care of your elder family members--we Chinese take care of our own--that is the explicitness of marrying within our own; it guarantees our future.
3- What is the staple of guaranteed bloodlines and the passing the torch down to our offspring for the continued glory that was enshrined by our father's, father's, father's, on so-on down the line, when you exchange body fluids with outsiders to create non-pedigreed offspring?
4- Chinese women are incredibly independent. Have you met every AF who chooses to marry a foreigner? I believe that to be a statistical impossibility. Therefore, how are you able to establish their one-and-only motivation?
5- Do the White guys who treat them better during the dating stage continue to do so after the AF produces a few of his foreign half-breed mongrels? Or does it only happen during the HUNT? Are Westerners that family orientated, or is the USA divorce rate only a fallacy?
6- It must be true; we are the perpetual aliens. We have conjured up a conspiracy, perpetrated by all of us Asian propagandist racists, who are only operating on a clandestine mission for the destruction of Western civilization, starting right here, in the USA, where we can freely immigrate to and live as equals with the benevolent White man.

Do your ever think perhaps, that your mother definitely did not give birth to anything close to a genius?



To DalaiWu (Score: 1)
by flash on Wednesday, September 15 @ 23:44:55 EDT
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Yeah, I guess you are right. I don't know of what I speak regarding China's horrible human rights record, gendercide and mistreatment of its minorities.

Perhaps these articles are just the White man's attempt to keep China down!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/1506469.stm

http://www.tcrnews2.com/Gendercide.html

http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2004/mar/04030908.html

But wait, maybe I've seen this for myself. Maybe the Chinese part of my family has seen how China's perverse worship of the male child has come with a terribly high price tag for China's little dead girls along the side of the road and in the garbage cans.

I'm proud of the Chinese part of my family, but there is no question that America has been much better to the Chinese than China has been.

All of this is to say that your (and the author's) self-pity and racism towards whites is not productive.

In America, we are nation that believes in the freedom and power of the individual, not the power and false glorification of the state. I think it is great that Whites and Asians (and all races for that matter) are dating and marrying at such high levels. It shows the true greatness of America and the goodness of its people.






Re: Stop Being The Victim, Do Something About It! (Score: 1)
by LivBoring (pwetzel@hotmail.com) on Thursday, September 16 @ 00:39:24 EDT
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If you have to do something, then improve yourself.

Ask yourself what do those AF see in white men that they dont see in the AM.

Portrayal of media of white men can only do so much if the the portrayal is correct.

Word of mouth is the most powerful marketing tool for the AM.

If you are ready to respect an AF as your equal, ready to support her in her career instead of suppressing it for your own insecure reasons then any female, not just AF would find you more attractive than the WM.



To dilbert and flash: Re: Stop Being The Victim, Do Something About It! (Score: 1)
by DalaiWu on Saturday, September 18 @ 17:26:22 EDT
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Factor this into your equation when you two denigrate group societal values that we Asians prefer to adhere to as you advertise Western individualism as the uncomprimisingly only and greatest answer.

BTW: Does Jessica Cutler's genetics have anything to do with her behavior or is it only due to environmental exposure? Any stats?

The following is an excerpt from the Wash. Post (with expert testimony and statistics--which you seem to value so much)


".... "She's a sign," says Daniel Yankelovich, the pollster and analyst who has been studying American values for 50 years. He means a sign of our times, as is Jessica's frumpy 21-year-old contemporary, Pfc. Lynndie England, whose gleeful mugging for the cameras as she mocked naked Iraqi prisoners at Abu Ghraib unsettled the national conscience. Both women have left many people questioning: How did we get here?

Jessica's "behavior is not mainstream majority behavior in the same way that most soldiers in Iraq are not abusing people," Yankelovich says. "She's an extreme, but she's a sign. These kinds of signs are breaking out often enough that you know they are signaling something much larger and more important."

Feminist author Naomi Wolf agrees, and says modern sexual conduct offers a window into what's been gained and lost in the nation's values revolution. The sexual revolution, now stripped of much of its feminist political ideology, has left legions of young women free but confused. "I think the tipping point came three or four years ago with the first generation to grow up with the Internet," Wolf says. "They were daughters of feminists. The feminist message of autonomy got filtered through a pornographized culture. The message they heard was just go for it sexually.

"What is gained is they totally reject the double standard and believe they are entitled to sexual exploration and sexual satisfaction," Wolf says. "The downside is we've raised a generation of young women -- and men -- who don't understand sexual ethics like: Don't sleep with a married man; don't sleep with a married woman; don't embarrass people with whom you had a consensual sexual relationship. They don't see sex as sacred or even very important anymore. That's been lost. Sex has been commodified and drained of its deeper meaning."

To conservative commentator Michelle Malkin, who views the sexual revolution as media-driven, immoral and damaging to women, Jessica's eager publicists in the mainstream press are just as repulsive as Jessica herself. "This vulgar little episode reflects a larger, disturbing media trend toward normalizing and glamorizing sexual promiscuity among young working women," Malkin wrote in an online column titled "The Skanks on Capitol Hill," which was posted on the townhall.com Web site. "It harms those trying to succeed on their merits in the professional arena. And it also harms our own daughters, who will be forced to fight harder to protect their dignity and credibility in a 'Girls Gone Wild' culture."

That culture has been well documented. In 1971, 30 percent of American girls ages 15 to 19 had had sexual intercourse, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. By 1988, that number had climbed to 51 percent. The steady rise leveled off in the late 1980s, then dipped slightly, in part because of AIDS awareness campaigns. Still, a substantial number of today's teenage girls report that they and their friends engage in casual sex with multiple partners devoid of emotional commitments.

Twenty-eight percent of girls ages 15 to 17 said that sexual intercourse was "almost always" or "most of the time" part of a casual relationship, according to a 2002 survey by the Kaiser Family Foundation and Seventeen magazine. Thirty percent of girls surveyed said relationships between boyfriends and girlfriends typically involved someone cheating or doing something sexual with someone else.

Pepper Schwartz, a University of Washi

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To flash: Re: Stop Being The Victim, Do Something About It! (Score: 1)
by DalaiWu on Saturday, September 18 @ 23:53:35 EDT
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At this point, you are just in denial.

Secondly, you have not learned any lessons from the Chinese side of your family that you profess to have.

You do not comprehend the Chinese concept of "eating bitter", nor the ability to both state bitter experiences as statements of fact and to use them in advantageous ways in the future. To read what someone has written, and then to believe that you have the super-human ability of "mind-reading", where you believe that you can accurately inform said person as to how they feel, is extraordinarily arrogant, and definitely a distinctly dishonorable and un-Chinese act.

You also accused me of being young, spoiled, and lacking in disadvantaged experiences. I addressed your accusations not only directly, but I also included specific references to qualify the veracity of those experiences and the validity of the dating, of which I was accused of not being. You chose to deny the existence of my response and side-step like a politician running for cover. You are obviously not in the position to make that statement about me, or else you would not have hit and run. You profess to love the Western way, but also claim to have a Chinese side. I submit to you that said Chinese side is not only not evident, but that your defense of your act of individualistic dishonor towards me in this regard only supports not only your denial, but your own self-hate for the Chinese genes that you profess to have; you are actually a racist who has chosen to call himself Western--which is your prerogative--while still claiming to be Chinese as you simultaneously attack us Chinese for being Chinese.

In one of your postings, you actually categorically stated that you support Western children 100% percent for their offensive queries, and obnoxiously offer the alternative of having said children to instead, ignore the differences or the Asian child--in this case, me--instead. Your support of racism towards Asians is obvious to everyone but yourself. You lack any sophisticated understanding of Chinese culture--we do not excuse our children for offensive behavior just because they are children--as you Westerners do. A properly raised Chinese child, when faced with the same situation, would have kept his/her mouth closed, and observed the situation until he/she figured it out. If that child could not do so, then if he/she were properly raised, said child would approach someone in authority--whom they know would not be offended--for the answers. Westerners believe that it is innocent for a child to behave in such a manner, without giving thought to the fact that the Asian child may be offended. If you do not consider how the recipient will respond to your interaction, because you do not consider that you two are not the same, is a prejudice by definition since you are only judging from your POV. It is racist, plain and simple.

You should just profess to be the Westerner that you are so proud to be. Do not claim your stated Chinese heritage, because not only do you reject it, it is nowhere to be found. Then you will only be a racist and you will no longer be in denial.



Re: Stop Being The Victim, Do Something About It! (Score: 1)
by dilbert3999 on Thursday, September 23 @ 16:47:00 EDT
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"1- You have obviously never been to China; speak what you know."-DalaiWu

”An illogical statement; if you're not in Group X you can't discuss Topic Y.”- dilbert3999

”NOPE…YOU CANNOT POSSIBLY UNDERSTAND WHAT IS OCCURRING UNLESS YOU PUT IT INTO THE PROPER CULTURAL PERSPECTIVE. UNLESS YOU HAVE BEEN TO A COUNTRY--OTHER THAN CHINA WITH A POPULATION OF MORE THAN 1.3 BILLION--THAN YOU LACK BOTH THE NEEDED POINT OF REFERENCE AND THE SOPHISTICATION TO DO SO.” -DalaiWu

Ah so liberal Chinese racist who believes in the myth of cultural relativism.

So by your “logic” one can only “understand” that women are slaves, chattel & property in the Middle East only if you’ve traveled or lived there or have Middle Eastern ethnicity.

All others who read any peer reviewed scientific study on that phenomenon cannot have any say.

Yeah, that’s um real logical.

”Guess no one but Sudanese can discuss the situation there by your logic.”-dilbert3999

”SUDANESE PEOPLE ARE AFRICAN AND EITHER ARAB OR BLACK--FOR THE MOST PART. I HAVE 20-10 VISION, SO I DO NOT POSSIBLY SEE HOW CHINESE PEOPLE SHOW ANY RESEMBLANCE TO THE SUDANESE PEOPLE. MAYBE, YOU SHOULD INVESTIGATE THE NEED FOR PRESCRIPTION EYEWEAR, OR PERHAPS YOUR CURRENT PRESCRIPTION NEEDS UPGRADING. JUST A THOUGHT….”-DalaiWu

Now this clearly shows you’re inability to see the illogic of your position based on your emotionally driven ideology.

In layman’s terms:

If you can’t speak of Chinese culture because you’re either not Chinese or have not lived there.

Then by your logic one could not speak of Sudanese culture because you’re either not Sudanese or have not lived there.

"2- If you are White, please explain to me what your traditions are for taking care of your elder family members--we Chinese take care of our own--that is the explicitness of marrying within our own; it guarantees our future."-DalaiWu

”Racist statement. Implies that failure to take care of old people is an inherent fault and not due to differing environmental factors.
Also illogical but then racism generally is.”-dilbert3999

”IT IS CHINESE TRADITION TO TAKE IN YOUR ELDERS, INFIRMED OR NOT. ARE YOU ACTUALLY TRYING TO SAY THAT THAT IS A WHITE AMERICAN TRADITION? PLEASE….AND IF SO, WHY ARE THERE SO MANY NURSING HOMES AND OTHER SIMILAR FACILITIES?” -DalaiWu

So it is environmental? Thank you for conceding the point.

"3- What is the staple of guaranteed bloodlines and the passing the torch down to our offspring for the continued glory that was enshrined by our father's, father's, father's, on so-on down the line, when you exchange body fluids with outsiders to create non-pedigreed offspring?"-DalaiWu

”Fascinating. Another racist statement since modern science deems mixing the gene pool to be a good thing.”-dilbert3999

”BECAUSE OF OUR TRADITIONS AND CLOSENESS OF GENERATIONS, MY CHILDREN WILL BE GUARANTEED A GOOD LIFE AND SUCCESS, JUST AS MY FATHER DID FOR ME, AND HIS FATHER DID FOR HIM, AND SO ON, AND SO ON. CAN YOU SAY THAT FOR A WHITE AMERICAN, EVEN WITH AN HYP EDUCATION, THAT SAID PERSON CAN GUARANTEE HIS CHILDREN'S PROSPERITY?” -DalaiWu

Going by US Census data – the answer to that is yes white children probably will do OK & have success.

I’m guessing with your fixation on white people that you’re primarily racist towards whites however.

”I ASSUME THAT YOU FIND IT TO BE "FASINATING " BECAUSE THIS CONCEPT IS TOO FOREIGN TO YOU. YES OR NO?” -DalaiWu

Fascinating in that you’re a racist.

With regards to a stable family guaranteeing success pretty much every scientific study ever done has shown that the 50% of marriages that do succeed the children are less likely to be criminals, have addictions, have mental disorders, be abused & achieve a higher educational level.



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Re: Stop Being The Victim, Do Something About It! (Score: 1)
by CCBHater4U on Friday, December 10 @ 03:37:45 EST
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Let me just say that I found this site by accident and I am so relieved to find some kind of communty where I can voice my concerns with others who can relate and understand. This is obviously a problem that needs action right away. The more I try to understand why this is happening the more frustrating it becomes. Not to long ago I confronted a few of my co-workers and asked what kind of guys do you date. Immediately with a grin she said "white" the disgusting part was she seemed really proud and had no remorse what so ever saying it to my face. Its because of people like her I feel compelled to write a piece on the discussion of dating AF/AM and sending it to AsianWeek in hopes of getting it published. I to have severed friendships with Asian sisters who sold me out. Not to say ending friendships is the way to go but its a start and they need to understand how serious this is. I also took it upon myself to have educated discussions about this serious issue and try to relate my feeling as a Asian American Male. And successfully two of them are really contemplating the issues and the choices they previously made.



Re: Stop Being The Victim, Do Something About It! (Score: 1)
by Mitsubishi on Tuesday, January 11 @ 22:19:25 EST
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Well, whether WM/AF relationships is should be acceptable or not, I think it is up them (the 2 ppl taht are in the relationship) to decide.

If the AF chooses the WM over the AM, let her do so. For only fate can tell if she'll regret her decision later on. Sure, AFs can say that WMs are hotter, stronger, and etc.. than AMs, but in the long run, will that be important? In the long run, is that true love? Remember that true love is not based on physical fearures.


The point I'm trying to get to is to accept all relationships. There is no reason for us to criticize one over another based on ethnicity or race. Let them taste the world for themselves.



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