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Postcard from Taiwan
Posted by Andrew on Tuesday, June 15 @ 10:00:00 EDT
Contributed by WWu777
Identity By Winston Wu
Special to ModelMinority.com
March 19, 2004

The things I like about Taiwan are the good weather (sunny and warm most of the year), friendly kind good-natured people, hospitality, and great food always around the corner. Also, the family values and family bonds there are unparalleled to anything we have in the states. However, here are some deep observations about its other things.

I've discovered a little paradox. Obviously, the young people here (like in Japan) are very very introverted, shy, and reclusive to the nth degree. It seems that only the old people here are outgoing and little kids too. Somehow, it seems that when people (especially girls) here reach the age of 12 or 13, they suddenly become ultra-introverted and cliqueish until they are about 30 or so, then they start to open up again. What I don't understand though, is this. Here, there are statues and temples to Buddha and Confucius everywhere. So obviously, they are seen as cultural and historical idols here. Now, both Buddha and Confucius taught that nothing in extremity is any good, not even a good thing like love. The middle way, or a balance of it, is the best. So why are people here so introverted, shy and reclusive to such an extreme degree, that it seems unnatural and abnormal? Don't they know that such extreme behaviors are never good?

Also, some parents here, especially from the country/rural areas, have this habit of controlling their children throughout their lives to an obsessive compulsive degree, asking them about every little thing, telling them what to do on every aspect of their lives, even those they don't know anything about or aren't qualified to judge on, checking up on every aspect of their lives, double checking everything they do, and doing many other unnecessary and wasteful things, etc. It is extremely humiliating to their children and impedes them from becoming independent. But in their minds of course, they are doing a good thing out of their care and concern for their children's well being, even if it means going overboard. Therefore, to many Taiwanese parents, intentions are more important than outcomes and results.

Nevertheless, it's definitely taken to the extreme as well beyond a doubt. So why do they do this, when their cultural and historical idols, such as Buddha and Confucius, said that nothing in extremity is any good? Why do they have extreme behaviors like this here? Weird. It doesn't make a lot of sense when you think about it.

I wrote this list of reasons below why I don't fit in Taiwan mentally or spiritually, because some people there don't understand how I could have Taiwanese blood and not fit in there. (Such a primitive and racist way of thinking!)

1) The culture and mentality of people here are not interesting or attractive to me. My soul does not connect to it either. The reasons why are explained below. I am much more attracted to and infatuated with the culture of Russia and Europe.

2) I do not have any social or economic advantages / benefits here. It seems that white males are given higher status and benefits here. Therefore, Taiwan is advantageous to them. Taiwan is one of the few countries that discriminate against themselves. However, overseas Chinese Americans are not treated like white Americans. Instead, they are treated like normal Taiwanese people. Nothing special. Just peasants. However, they do not see themselves this way. They are told that they are not even foreigners, so they aren't allowed to say they're Americans and state their self-identity. Instead, Taiwan assigns them a new one based on their appearance. Therefore, there is a contradiction between how Taiwan views ABC's and how ABC's view themselves. Personally, I see myself as attractive, special, and higher status and that is how I am treated in Russia. Therefore, I am not accustomed to being treated like a normal Taiwanese person. And furthermore, I would not want to be a typical Taiwanese person anyway.

3) In fact, here is a well known example of what I mean. In Taiwan, a white English teacher can easily make about 60,000 NT dollars per month (about $1800) even with no experience. On the other hand, an overseas Asian American (or of any other race) would be paid about half that, only a little better than average, and this applies even if the overeas Asian American speaks fluent English and has more experience and credentials than the white teacher. This is a common complaint often mentioned on the internet on ESL websites, and confirmed by my experiences in Taiwan too. The reason is because whites are seen as status symbols in Taiwan, symbols of moving up. It's not so much the fault of the cram schools, but more of the parents, who are willing to pay more to send their kids to white teachers than of any other race. It is a status symbol to their parents, and one of the ways they compete with other parents in raising the more successful child that they're proud of. It's a form of reverse discrimination, and Taiwanese are discriminating against themselves. Westerners I told this to said that was kind of sick.

4) I don't feel like my soul can grow, evolve or thrive in Taiwan. It would be like attempting to plant a mango tree in California. It just wouldn't grow. I feel that Taiwan would be like dead unfertile dirt to me where my spirit and intellect could not grow. Some things grow in some environments and not others. Some things mix well together and not others. For example, milk and ketchup do not mix well together, but ketchup mixes well with hamburgers and milk mixes good with cereal. In fact, I feel that if I became accustomed to Taiwan, my soul would evolve backward, not forward. It would be like trying to put on clothes that I outgrew when I was 10 years old.

5) People in Taiwan do not understand me. Our mentalities are too different. When I express or explain myself in Taiwan, no one really understands me or connects to my mentality. Taiwanese and Asian people in general seem to have a different soul. When I express or explain myself in America or Europe, people understand my meaning and mentality, even if they don't agree with me. Why should I live in a society where people do not understand me? It would be senseless and illogical.

6) There are many things in Taiwanese society and mentality that I dislike. Here are some examples. They do not apply to all Taiwanese people, but they do apply to a large portion of them.

a) Most people here do not have any interests or passions outside of work and school. In fact, many Taiwanese people consider it odd and improper to have very many interests outside of school and work. A few hobbies to relax you is ok, but intellectual interests are frowned upon. People are expected to conform and work hard, not think critically or in unconventional ways. They believe that a person shouldn't have too many interests outside of work and school because it would detract from the main purpose of life, which is work and school, and that all focus should be on that instead. Of course, the tradeoff for them is that if you only focus on one thing and put your energy toward it, you are much more likely to succeed and be better at it. That much is true, and it's partly why Japanese companies are so successful. Therefore, this single mindedness approach does have its benefits. But it creates people that I just don't relate to, aren't attracted to, don't admire, don't want to emulate, and don't find interesting, and that's the bottom line.

b) Some even believe it is healthy and productive to work 7 days a week. You can even see an example of this "work 7 days a week" mentality in the USA. On Christmas Day or New Years Day, when almost all non-essential businesses are closed, you'll find that Chinese restaurants are still open even when other restaurants aren't. I'm sure most of you in the US have noticed this. That's because Chinese people are proud to be working when others aren't. It gives them a sense of pride. Weird. It's like whipping yourself and getting pride from it. A form of sadomasichism.

c) Some people believe that having free time is a sin or bad thing (totally contrary to American or European mindsets). In fact, there is a common phrase in Taiwanese language used to describe someone who meddles in other people's business, that goes like this "He/She has already eaten and has too much time on his/her hands." This implies and reflects the mentality that having free time to do the things you want is a bad thing. Very odd indeed. It's as if these people are more like robots than humans.

d) There seems to be an inherent nature in Taiwanese people to be very petty and anal-retentive even about the smallest things. It's like some of them don't feel alive unless they are petty or anal about something. It's very strange, but that's a pattern I've noticed, even among my family and relatives there.

These things above are ludicrous and distasteful to a western mindset. Not only are they bizarre, but they are uninteresting and unattractive as well. I have no problem with things that are bizarre or weird, as long as they are interesting, such as ghosts or UFO's. But when something is bizarre, uninteresting and distasteful, then it is pointless as there is no reason to try to understand or meld with it.

Taiwan is obviously an intellectually and sexually repressed society. I prefer societies which are intellectually and sexually progressive and open.

7) Taiwanese students are controlled by fear to study and pass exams. They do not study out of interest or curiosity. They are controlled by fear from their parents, teachers, and society. They believe that if they don't study well, they will disgrace themselves and their family. The thing is, the vast majority of what they study is never used in real life. It is just a method for disciplining their behaviors. The academic exam system was a method for defining the line between social classes long ago, which has never changed or evolved.

That is why most Taiwanese students have little knowledge about things, even though they study 8 - 10 hours per week. And this is obvious just from conversations with them. When you have conversations with people from Europe for example, they sound like they have a lot of knowledge and can discuss many topics. And they speak English fluently and at least 3 languages in general. But Taiwanese students are not like that at all. They are not interested in intellectual things or knowledge. In Taiwan, almost no one asks me questions about other cultures or my country. They only ask a few simple questions about me. They simply aren't interested or curious in the world outside their little island, and many don't mind spending their whole lives here. It is weird. Here, no one even wants to take an American coin from me as a souvenir, even though they've never seen one before. That is strange. In Russia and Europe, everyone wanted to keep my American coins as souvenirs.

8) Also, I do not think this society is mentally healthy. Most people here are governed by two emotions, fear and guilt. Parents control their children obsessively through guilt. People are often judgmental and critical of others, because of low self-esteem. And they are extremely introverted and shy for some reason. It seems that only little children and old people in Taiwan are outgoing and talkative. The young people between 13 and 30 seem too shy, introverted, and conservative. People here are also very prudish. They do not like to touch other people, they do not like to hug their parents, friends, etc. Even most married people in Taiwan do not say "I love you" to each other. And many couples never kiss on the mouth, even in private! Can you believe that? Also, for some reason, people, especially girls are afraid to be touched. They are like scared stray cats that are afraid to be petted. It is extreme. Asians obviously have an ultra-sensitive nervous system and low self-confidence too. All these things to me, are examples reflecting a mentally unhealthy society.

9) In theory, I would not be successful with Taiwanese women. Here is why. In regards to dating, there are two main types of Taiwanese girls. The first type is the conservative old-fashioned type, which likes traditional Taiwanese men with Taiwanese culture and mentality inside them. The other type is the more modern, open, new fashion type that is attracted to foreign or American culture and men. However, they like WHITE American/foreign men, not men like me. (They have the perception, which America outgrew 15 years ago, that only white Americans are real Americans.) Since I do not belong in either group of men that Taiwanese women like. Therefore, I am mismatched here.

Taiwanese women do not see me as Taiwanese (since I don't share their language, culture, mentality, behaviors, or vibes) or as an American (since I'm not white). So they just see me as an odd misfit that defies their categorical conceptions. Likewise, I do not see Taiwan as my home country or a foreign country either. It is an in between, and a country I long outgrew.

10) My self-identity gets screwed with in Taiwan. In America, as long as I have an American passport and can speak standard English, I can rightfully call myself an American regardless of my skin color. And it would be socially acceptable and politically correct for me to do so. Officially, Americans come in all colors, not just white, and most of the USA acknowledges and accepts that (at least outwardly). Therefore, in the USA, I'm told that I'm an American. But in Taiwan, if I say that I'm an American, people will look at me like they are offended or like I said something inappropriate. They will feel that I am denying my asian heritage by calling myself an American. Therefore, in a sense, they are telling me that I'm NOT an American, and trying to give me a new identity based on my appearance and race. And that is screwing with my self-identity big time. (Fortunately, I'm not a kid whose self-identity is still being formed) Not only is that very racist, but it's also rude and inconsiderate to try to mess with someone's identity like that. (Needless to say, Taiwanese people have a very different standard and definition of politeness than we westerners do).

One reason they do this is that Taiwan still has the mentality that only white Americans are real Americans. That mentality was in America back in the early 80's and before, but we've evolved out of that. But Taiwan still has that mentality that we outgrew in the 80's. They don't get that Americans come in other colors than white. It's another example of primitive backwards mentality.

11) Assertiveness is not a valued trait in Taiwan and most of Asia. While being assertive is encouraged in America, it isn't in Taiwan. That is one reason why people are shy and introverted. Communication styles are different. In Taiwan, communication is subtle and indirect, so people can be harder to read and understand and relate to. Therefore, when I am assertive, people look at me oddly because it is impolite and it makes me feel out of place. That also makes it difficult to communicate with people, since they don't have "communication skills" as we know it and according to our definition.

12) Many of the standards of politeness and impoliteness are reversed in Taiwan and America. For example, assertiveness is proper in America but rude in Taiwan. So is defying tradition and going for what your heart desires. In contrast, in Taiwan people think it is ok for someone who barely knows or understands you to lecture you and tell you what to do with your life, giving advice where it's not asked for. In the states, that is considered rude, to give advice to someone who didn't ask for it, especially if it concerns his/her personal life. But Taiwanese people seem to have no problem doing that, and feel they are doing you good, even if they don't know anything about you. Many of my relatives there do this. It's as if they feel inadequate unless they do so.

Also, many Taiwanese people are not afraid to say to someone directly "You are fat" or "You've gained weight". They've even said that to foreigners too, who tell me so. In the states, it is VERY inappropriate to do that That is considered bad manners to us.

Also, regarding table manners, it is one of the areas of life in Taiwan which has not become civilized. Many have bad table manners, and spit things out of their mouth when they eat in front of others. And many of the meat and chicken dishes still show heads, hands, feet, and fingers. Very inappropriate by western standards. I have been told it is a quirk in Taiwanese life. While Taiwan has modernized in other areas, it hasn't in table etiquette.

In summary, people here are very nice and hospitable. But these reasons above make me feel that this country is not the right place for me.

 
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Re: Postcard from Taiwan (Score: 1)
by ravenastro on Tuesday, June 15 @ 11:27:41 EDT
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Winston,

There's a lot here, some of which I mostly agree with, and some of which I disagree with. But overall, it is very interesting to read your thoughts because I myself have a very visceral relationship with Taiwan, in that I love it, and that I do feel that my soul connects to the island, the people and the culture. So I am curious to find out what else has shaped your perspective:

First, what part/s of Taiwan are you talking about? Taipei is very different from Hua-lien is different from Gaoxiong. I personally would hesistate to say that all cultural attitudes are the same in these places, particularly since Taipei (the downtown parts) tend to be more modernized and Westernized than the others.

Secondly, what is your ethnicity/background? I think that native Taiwanese who have grown up in the States are treated differently than one whose family came in the 2nd or even 1st wave of immigrants from China.

I guess an addendum to the previous question would be, what dialects do you speak? I think that one would be given different amounts of "access" to locals depending on whether one spoke only English, Mandarin, or Taiwanese. Given the long history of colonization that Taiwan has had, and the current political situation, I think that these factors have to be taken into account.

I've been to Taiwan 6 times and have lived there for a year and a half, at different times in my life, in both Taichung and Taipei. Obviously Taiwan has a different culture than America - I would be upset if it had completely Americanized, and I don't think that it's fair to go to another country and expect it to be exactly like the one that you're used to. But more importantly, I think that if you go to a different country and expect it to match up to the standards that you grew up with, you're not going to be able to 1) enjoy the experience as much and 2) appreciate the country for what it is.

Personally I think that an inherent part of travel is uncomfortable learning, that you have to be willing to push your boundaries a little in order to truly gain from the experience. Otherwise, if you expected things to be exactly the same as they are in the States, why did you bother going to Taiwan? And if it was for a job, or to study, it doesn't mean that you need to keep those pre-expectations.

I'm going to go more in-depth in a later post, because I have a meeting.



Re: Postcard from Taiwan (Score: 1)
by awong (aw614@aol.com) on Tuesday, June 15 @ 15:01:01 EDT
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"Also, regarding table manners, it is one of the areas of life in Taiwan which has not become civilized. Many have bad table manners, and spit things out of their mouth when they eat in front of others. And many of the meat and chicken dishes still show heads, hands, feet, and fingers. Very inappropriate by western standards. I have been told it is a quirk in Taiwanese life. While Taiwan has modernized in other areas, it hasn't in table etiquette."

I don't really agree with this comment. It seems here you feel everyone should eat by western standards. However, not everyone is going to eat by western standards and maybe you should understand that there is "no wrong" way to eat and that with different cultures different things are acceptable and not accepted. How is spitting on a plate uncivilized if it is a normal custom for Taiwan/China. I can understand this if they are eating in place like America or europe, but it seems you are places western values on the people there which I believe shouldn't be done. Sure I eat like that too, but I know when to, like not in many restuarants in the US unless its chinese.

"Also, many Taiwanese people are not afraid to say to someone directly "You are fat" or "You've gained weight". They've even said that to foreigners too, who tell me so. In the states, it is VERY inappropriate to do that That is considered bad manners to us."
This too, you need to understand different customs other people have and learn to accept it.



Re: Postcard from Taiwan (Score: 1)
by Seraphfire on Tuesday, June 15 @ 15:13:16 EDT
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OMG, is this a serious article? UNCIVILIZED?! This is some seriously ignorant Americano-centric BS. It's one thing to comment on the differences two cultures have in regard to social mores and etiquette. It is TOTALLY different to pass judgment and call one "uncivilized" and "rude".

Taiwanese (and other Asian cultures) simply have different mores and rules for behavior, that are neither uncivilized or rude. Now I am a ABC too so I have a very good idea where Winston is coming from but passing judgment on the superiority of one culture vs. another is the same callous ignorance colonists/invaders do.

I cannot recall how many times non-Asian friends and coworkers would be surprised I cook chicken with the head and feet and fish with the head still on it. A Taiwanese would be shocked Americans select fish without a head because you cannot tell how fresh it is without it and to cook and present a fish to guests without it indicates you're hiding something. Besides fish heads, chicken feet etc. are delicacies as much as pate de foie gras and sucking crawfish heads are.

And so Taiwanese called you fat. That's not necessarily rude and is probably meant to compliment you. In American we ask "How are you?" without really wanting to know so who is the rude one?

No, neither is rude. It's the correct social etiquette for that culture. And neither is superior to the other.

Winston, you looked at Taiwan with American eyes which is fine but you did so with complete ignorance and looked for supremacy as to your ways and understood nothing.



Re: Postcard from Taiwan (Score: 1)
by Jax on Tuesday, June 15 @ 17:29:05 EDT
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Winston, I must say, you sound pretty white-washed. Did you NOT grow up around other Asian people?

Most Asian Americans, even the 3rd and 4th generation ones, would NOT find eating chicken with the heads and feet on shocking or disgusting. Haven't you ever had Dim Sum where they server chicken feet?

You must have grown up in a pretty racially monolithic area if you are taken aback by the basics of ASIAN culture.

BTW, Indians would find the fact that you eat cows (beef) disgusting and uncivilized. What do you think about that?




Re: Postcard from Taiwan (Score: 1)
by Dolemite on Tuesday, June 15 @ 17:39:21 EDT
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"In summary, people here are very nice and hospitable. But these reasons above make me feel that this country is not the right place for me."

I've been in and out of Taiwan more times than I can remember - but I do know that I've never had a bad time. Strikes me that this kid don't speak Mandarin or Taiwanese... or if he does, he is just bothered that no one has offered to suck him off in public. The people I've met have all been very interesting and passionate- the same as other people in other countries of the world. If you can't communicate with them- you'll never know these things... and Taiwanese women will f*ck with the best of them. Afraid to be touched my ass.

Taiwan is a foreign country. Things are different. They are not the same as home or Europe. Get over it. Taiwanese Blood has nothing to do with it.

This kid sounds to me like someone who would travel half way around the world and eat at a McDonalds.



Re: Postcard from Taiwan (Score: 1)
by aznyulun on Wednesday, June 16 @ 00:18:14 EDT
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YOU SOUND LIKE A FAT WHITE GUY THAT CAN'T GET LAID. Obviously you have very little Taiwanese friends in order to come up with such narrow point of view for million and millions of Taiwanese people!!!

First of all you say Taiwanese discriminate against themselves, well you are the perfect example!!!

Second, of course you can't relate to the people because you can't even speak Taiwanese, moron!

Third, I am Taiwanese and I know very little about Buddha and Confucius, and many Taiwanese from this generation don't either.
What you are saying is like saying why are Americans so lazy when the country is found by Protestants!!!!!!!!!!!! You damn fool!!!

God a fool like you really piss me off. You thinking all Taiwanese kids study out of fear. Thinking they are all shy. Well how about the growing problem of gang violence and prostitution in Taiwan??????? I am sure these people are all shy and are good students that fear their parents!!

Last, I do agree with you about how many Taiwanese favor white people, but instead of abandoning Taiwan and run off to Russia or Europe, I still love the country.



Re: Postcard from Taiwan (Score: 1)
by aznyulun on Wednesday, June 16 @ 00:22:56 EDT
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This is a site where Asian-Americans work togehter to fight racism so take your damn narrow minded article else where, moron!!



Re: Postcard from Taiwan (Score: 1)
by Judy on Wednesday, June 16 @ 12:25:10 EDT
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I found this essay pretty interesting, but I am bothered by the stuff the author says about how he expected to be treated with more respect being from America. Yes, it is pathetic how the commercials and ads in Taiwan love bi-racial (half-white, seldom half-black) models, and yes, it is also sad that they'll pay white Americans more to teach English. On the other hand, a lot of the comments made sound pretty patronizing, pompous, and stereotyping, and they'd be darn offensive if some white visitor to Taiwan had said the same. I have been to Taiwan 5 times and my parents moved back there in the early 90's. My younger sibs spent a large chunk of their childhoods there, thus also being influenced by the white worship in the Taipei American School (Tienmu) area. I don't feel like Taiwan is home to me, because I've never even lived there-- it was just a place to visit for a few weeks. The people didn't seem so stereotypical to me-- I met plenty of talkative people. Good luck finding a place where you feel more comfortable.



Re: Postcard from Taiwan (Score: 1)
by ravenastro on Wednesday, June 16 @ 17:21:51 EDT
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Wow, I was going to leave the skewering for later, but I guess you guys mostly took care of that for me.

I guess the part that disturbed me the most was this:


Taiwan is one of the few countries that discriminate against themselves. However, overseas Chinese Americans are not treated like white Americans. Instead, they are treated like normal Taiwanese people. Nothing special. Just peasants. However, they do not see themselves this way. They are told that they are not even foreigners, so they aren't allowed to say they're Americans and state their self-identity. Instead, Taiwan assigns them a new one based on their appearance. Therefore, there is a contradiction between how Taiwan views ABC's and how ABC's view themselves. Personally, I see myself as attractive, special, and higher status and that is how I am treated in Russia. Therefore, I am not accustomed to being treated like a normal Taiwanese person. And furthermore, I would not want to be a typical Taiwanese person anyway.


I personally don't see how this makes Winston any better than any other culture vulture tourist out there, whether his ancestors came from Asia, Africa, Europe, or Australia.

Winston, I am sorry that you don't feel that you belong or have a solid sense of place in Taiwan, but the "natives" are not going to bow down to you everywhere you go, nor should you expect them to.

Furthermore, yeah, it sucks that pale-skinned Americans get paid more as English teachers in Taiwan regardless of their qualifications, but guess what? The same thing happens here in the States on a broader level.

ravenastro



Re: Postcard from Taiwan (Score: 1)
by AngryABCGirl on Wednesday, June 16 @ 20:48:09 EDT
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This whole article is precisely why Asians in America need to stop moving to lily-white suburbs and assimilating without thinking.



Re: Postcard from Taiwan (Score: 1)
by DalaiWu on Thursday, June 17 @ 03:01:25 EDT
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This is an amazingly culturally inept essay. My family has been in this country for over one hundred years, but if one of my children were actually as lost as you are, I would only find myself at fault. Your parents have seriously failed you and you are obviously very damaged goods. Unfortunately, the advantages of Roe vs. Wade did not find your mother during her first trimester—you should have been aborted—and they should have never been allowed to procreate.

AND NEITHER SHOULD YOU!




Re: Postcard from Taiwan (Score: 1)
by aelward on Thursday, June 17 @ 12:13:27 EDT
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Heh, many people have already brought up great points, so I won't belabor many of them.

I will just say that if you go to Taiwan with an empty cup, you will definitely be filled with a whole new perspective.

I would think that the quote:

> overseas Chinese Americans are not treated
> like white Americans. Instead, they are
> treated like normal Taiwanese people.
> Nothing special.

should be a sense of relief and not one of dismay. How great it is to be treated as a human being and not a collection of stereotypes!

I can only guess that you are quite young if you really think that carrying a U.S. passport and speaking perfect English makes you American in the eyes of middle America. Perhaps after a few years in the workplace, you will look back at your Taiwan experience in a different light.




Re: Postcard from Taiwan (Score: 1)
by dxtreme on Thursday, June 17 @ 13:26:42 EDT
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Just by being born in America, you expected these "lower than you" asian people should have treated you like a god. I hope that one day, you will have a white person treated you like a cooli just because you are yellow.

You also complained about the taiwannese that doesnt understand you, but do you take the time to try to understand and appreciate their culture ? Have you ever wondered why Americans are generally hated by many other nations ??

I am sorry that you dont have a self esteem plus it doesnt help that you are FAT either. Judging by the way you described your experience andreactions of taiwaneese girls towards you, YOU MUST BE UGLY AND DONT HAVE A PERSONALITY NEITHER.

p/s: I am not a taiwanese. Asian, but not taiwanese.



Re: Postcard from Taiwan (Score: 1)
by taiwanguonanhai on Thursday, June 17 @ 21:45:00 EDT
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you say you are Taiwanese ethnically? Of course they are not going to get preference or special attention. They see you as one of them. No difference. I think you are too adapted to ABC life to be able to enjoy Taiwan.

And you say Taiwanese youth are introverted and live in fear under the education system? I lived there till I was 10. yes we have super strict education and studies are put way before anything else, but we are not shy or introverted except for those who like in every culture are like that.

It sounds like you dont see or feel the real Taiwan. Maybe its your age or your generation in the states....but you definitely should not be there if you're looking to be treated like something special.



There is perhaps one valid point in this article (Score: 1)
by 3line on Friday, July 09 @ 14:01:17 EDT
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And pity it's not one of the enumerated ones.

What the author said about the traditional Chinese extended patriarchy is just about right, from my experience. My grandparents are relatively well off by Chinese standards, yet they see nothing wrong with extorting their children for money at every turn. Ridiculous things too, like 100-200 yuan for lunch every single day. When I was born, my grandmother successfully petitioned for a pay raise for my dad. Only thing is that she didn't tell him and just pocketed the difference. It's pretty ***** evil. They also brainwash the grandkids into thinking that their purpose in life is to earn money for them (they tried it on me, but I left the country). All my uncles are fed up with it. Hell, my folks are fed up with it, and we're living on another continent (we're like the black sheep of the family now for whatever reason--they always have to pick a target). So far, they've helped to break two marriages and institutionalize my youngest uncle's wife.

Plus, (surprise, surprise) my grandmother's convinced of the superiority of the white race. She's the most white supremacist Chinese person I know. She actually spoke of "elevating the genes of the family."

In theory, the Chinese family system is a lovey dovey and supportive, but that's only under ideal conditions with ideal people. More than once has this been transformed into the systematic exploitation of the younger generation. They say it's culture, and they say it's tradition, but at the core of it, it's all about money and power.



Re: Postcard from Taiwan (Score: 1)
by WWu777 on Tuesday, July 13 @ 07:12:05 EDT
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Dear all,
Hello, this is Winston, the guy who wrote this article that you're all commenting on. I didn't even know my article was posted until I did a search for my name on Yahoo.

Anyway, I read through many of the comments here, and they are interesting. I can't possibly respond to each one individually, so I will try to address some of the common statements that were posted.

First of all, it is funny that some of you thought that I was a fat white guy. Those people obviously didn't read my essay very clearly, in which I stated several times that I was Asian American of Taiwanese descent.

Second, the reason Taiwanese and Chinese people like to call each other fat is because it's almost like a custom, and because their standards for what is "fat" is very tight. In Taiwan, anyone who isn't prickly thin is considered fat. People who would otherwise never be considered fat in Western society are considered fat in Taiwan if they aren't super skinny. It's just a different standard, and not one I agree with.

My beef about the white teachers thing is that they are treated like Gods, yet I'm not even though I'm an America. In the USA, that would be illegal. But they get away with it in Taiwan.

A lot of you don't understand where I'm coming from. In Russia, I was treated like a celebrity, given high social status, had lots of girlfriends who looked like models, etc. When I'm used to that, it's hard to get used to being treated like lowly crap in Taiwan. That's where I'm coming from.

And for those of you who think I am ethnocentric, that's not true. I am treated like crap in the USA too. But you can't deny that there are many advantages that the US has over Taiwan. I've only listed some of them. As we all know, the US is also a very racist country socially and culturally. The only areas it is not racist in is politics and law, and those are BS fields where its all about wording anyway. So I have a lot of criticisms on the US too.

To be honest, not to brag, but in some ways I do feel superior to average Taiwanese people, especially if they're from the south. Most Taiwanese people see things in black and white, 2 dimensional, while people of my type see things in 3 or 4 dimensions. I am a writer, and known for intellectual achievements. That's my strength. I get compliments all the time, and sometimes money too. Next year, I will be flown to Switzerland for a conference in fact. I am a reputed author in several different fields too.

I have received many positive emails about my Taiwan dissertation, mostly from the forum at www.eslcafe.com. Many foreigners wrote me and said that everything I said in that article expressed what they felt about Taiwan exactly, but that they never found the words for it. So I don't know why I got so many negative comments from this forum.

Even some Asian Americans wrote me and told me that my points were right on.

Some of you asked me if I didn't grow up around other Asian Americans. Well I did, but I didn't hang out with them much, unless I lived in California where I have no choice. CA is the most racist place I've ever been to. Very cliqueish too, and most people don't date or make friends outside their race, especially young white girls. No doubt about it. In CA, only asians would hang out with me. That was the culture there. But the thing is, I never connected to Asian culture or Asian American culture. Most Asian Americans around me only cared about grades, getting into Berkeley or Stanford, and obeying their parents to become doctors, engineers, etc.

All that was souless and meaningless to me. My spiritual path just didn't jive with Asian American mentality or culture. I never fit in, neither with the white crowd or the Asian crowd. It was an awkward situation all around.

However, these last two years I have spent much time in Russia and Europe, and for the first time in my li

Read the rest of this comment...



Whatever, man, just STFU (Score: 1)
by 3line on Tuesday, July 13 @ 11:15:33 EDT
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"A lot of you don't understand where I'm coming from. In Russia, I was treated like a celebrity, given high social status, had lots of girlfriends who looked like models, etc. When I'm used to that, it's hard to get used to being treated like lowly crap in Taiwan. That's where I'm coming from."

And I'm supposed to sympathize? With just another exploiter of an impoverished nation? Just like the Phillippines, Russia is turning into just another sex slave/mail order bride market. Instead of indignation, you ought to feel shame.

"Yesterday I went to see Nutcracker Ballet with a beautiful 26 year old Minsk girl I have been writing emails to. She held my hands and treated me most tenderly. Almost like a boyfriend she loves. Wow!!! Imagine that. I am a 46 year old Asian American guy who had NO American girlfriends, no sex with white American girls and of course no marriage and no family in all my life in USA. I could scarcely believe I was not dreaming throughout that date. It was so unreal that this beautiful girl treated me so well."

See what I mean, people? How many fat white fucks have said this about their Filipino MoBs?

"Most Asians who meet me look at me puzzled too, because they aren't used to Asians being so 3 or 4 dimensional in their thinking and communication. And they are puzzled as to how to connect with me either, since I don't share their views or mentality."

4 dimensional thinking, eh? Get over yourself, you aristocratic blockhead.



Re: Postcard from Taiwan (Score: 1)
by Aquira on Monday, July 19 @ 03:42:03 EDT
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You get after Taiwanese for eating birds' feet? Look at us: we eat hotdogs. I can't even name all the stuff they put in a hotdog. There are definitely people who would call us uncivilized for what we eat, not to mention how. Go to any fast food place in the U.S. and ask yourself- who has the bad table manners?
I can't believe the people at MM.com would post up such crap. You are basically saying that everyone in the world should conform to American ways. Who's being progressive? You sound just like the mindset of the 19th century.
I went to Taiwan just last year and met many college and high school kids there. Most of them were very open and extroverted, interested in hearing about my mixed race origins and such. If anyone, I was the one being shy and timid. I also visited some of the college classes there, and most of the students, far from being controlled by fear, were chatting and sleeping the whole time. My friend told me only half-jokingly "This is the state of the Taiwanese student." Everyone over there I talked too agreed that the college students were screwing around more and that their academic performance as a whole was declining. Also, psychology studies have shown that students in Japanese and Taiwanese high school, contrary to common belief, are much less stressed over academics than the average student in the United States.



Re: Postcard from Taiwan (Score: 1)
by beez on Thursday, March 09 @ 00:32:17 EST
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This is an amusing reading. :) but you miss other sides of flipcoin. I've seen a number of non-american whites who get pissed off when they are identified as americans by the majority of locals. I personally think it is unwise to pay attention on the small things like this.
Fat - I guess in america it isn't appropriate to tell someone he is fat, cuz the weight problem is widespread. in taiwan, people happy when they get 'early warnings'. not everyone here appreciates it thu, generally it isn't ok to tell it to a girl..

I'd just say relax and take things as they are, instead of trying to change them. it will work out.


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