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On ''The Asian Female Mystique''
Posted by Andrew on Wednesday, June 15 @ 10:00:00 EDT
Dating and Sexuality By Dan
The Marmot's Hole
May 31, 2005

Daniel Hong’s piece came off as inflammatory. At the same time, I agreed with many of its points.

The following is long, but try to suffer through it and honestly think about its points.

It often boils down to this:

White men enjoy a “halo effect” due to western global domination in economics, entertainment, etc., derived from the lands and resources (which their ancestors stole from indigenous peoples). Some then exploit this power in unequal relationships.

Consequently, the positions of Asian females, Asian-American females, and white men are radically different.

1) In Asia: Some women see Hollywood movies and the power of western nations. Those countries come to represent more wealth, modernity, more “space” to simply live, and a less competitive environment, etc.

Rather than being attracted to the man himself, she is attracted to what he represents. Even if in reality, he is someone who would beat his wife, a drug user, and an overall degenerate, it is difficult to separate fiction from reality.

2) For some Asian-American women: Often they are raised in white-dominated environments. That’s also all they’ve been exposed to in the media. Every main character in a book, every politician, every model in a magazine, every movie star they’ve ever seen has been a white man.

I remember reading a study of this little black girl in a psychology text. She had been raised in an all-white environment. Her teacher noticed that she would wash her hands over and over in school. The teacher asked her why she did that, and the child responded words to the effect that “lighter skin was better.”

People like this don’t outgrow their self-hate; they internalize it as they grow older. For them dating a white man is a way of fitting in, of belonging, with their larger society. Never underestimate the human desire to be “part of the group.” People are social pack animals.

3) For loser white men who obsess over Asian girls: It’s an easy way to get a woman, who in a perfectly equal world, would be far out of their league.

We’ve all met the dungeons and dragons-playing/math club member/computer geek/shy engineer/anime freaks who stalk Asian girls on the internet and on school campuses across the nation. You can even meet some at your local Asian church in the States.

They’ve accepted their loser status in their own society; they have no choice.

But instinctively, they understand they have a better chance in a less-powerful society, where not who they are, but what they represent, becomes the defining factor.

They can utilize the “halo effect,” which doesn’t work on white girls (because they’re white themselves and will see him for who he is), to get girls who fantasize about the west or about fitting in with larger American society.

For the truly f*cked up among those guys, they don’t have the ability to relate to women as real individuals, and Asian females represent a “safe object” for them to approach.

More extreme examples of relationships characterized by unequal societal power would be a 14 year-old girl willingly dating a 35 year-old man, or a girl from a poor country (like some in Southeast Asia or Eastern Europe) willingly traveling as a mail-order bride to a more developed nation.

Think about this: In most cases in Asia, the couple don’t even speak the same language well, let alone share the same culture. Yet modern psychologists believe that healthy human relationships are based on similarities, like both being Christian, or outdoorsy folk, or deadheads.

What do such pairs have in common? Typically they lack even the ability to carry on a proper conversation, let alone find out whether they agree that Beethoven is superior to Mozart.

Yes, there are exceptions to the rule and I’m not against interracial relationships per se, just against those that are based on power inequalities, fetishes, stereotypes, and self-hatred.

 
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Re: On ''The Asian Female Mystique'' (Score: 1)
by birch_barlow on Wednesday, June 22 @ 01:51:44 EDT
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I also couldn't recommend this post regarding Asian American activists enough: Origins of the Angry Asian American Left [www.gnxp.com]



Re: On ''The Asian Female Mystique'' (Score: 1)
by birch_barlow on Wednesday, June 22 @ 01:47:57 EDT
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I think this post [foreigndispatches.typepad.com] linked from the Marmot site makes an excellent point:

"Frankly, I don't see that conscious efforts at changing one's taste in women have any real prospect of success, any more than one can consciously "choose" to become gay or straight once one's preferences have been set, and while it may pain many men of Asian extraction that "their" women are going out with white men - a complaint they share in common with very many black women inflamed that "their" men are being "taken" by white females - I don't even agree with the premise that a certain set of women "belongs" to anyone, let alone that one should be in any position "to ask Asian-American women to choose [one] over white men"; that is in itself a form of racism, as it assumes that one ought to prefer potential partners with the same skin color as oneself."

This is also a very good point:
"The desire to be seen to have the "right" racial consciousness seems so strong nowadays that a man can more readily express his exclusive desire for other men than admit that he has a particular fixation on women of another race, a state of affairs I find exceedingly strange."

I'm sure that many of the lefties here would be quick to scream "gay bashing!" if one criticized homosexuality--especially if one thought it could be eliminated with the right social pressures as seems to be the dominant POV here regarding "asiaphilia." The "I'm against interracial dating but I'm actually fighting racism!" is self -serving baloney (oh, and don't give me 'it's ok as long as there's no fetishes involved' bulls***...probably 95% of interracial relationships would probably be seen as involving 'fetishes' by the ridiculous standards here) . I'd also add that the "asiaphilia is about power" horse crap is nothing more than recycled and dumbed down late 19th/early 20th century Marxism...and reminds me very much of the feminist BS about rape being about power rather than sex, which should be obvious rubbish to anyone not fit for the loony bin. Is it really so hard to imagine that many white guys like Asian women because *they find them physically attractive* rather than some twisted colonialist fantasy? Or do people here prefer 9879087018954 page explanations involving some obscure event 500-odd years ago by Asian American studies and "Critical Race Theory" academics with far too much time on their hands?



Re: On ''The Asian Female Mystique'' (Score: 1)
by ric on Wednesday, June 15 @ 13:20:21 EDT
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Another self righteous WM( married to K-woman) yaking off about whole asian IR scene :rolleyes:






Re: On ''The Asian Female Mystique'' (Score: 1)
by Marmot on Thursday, June 16 @ 14:05:12 EDT
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Mahod -- The blogger in question -- me -- is, as ric pointed out, a cracker. Dan, however, is the guy who posted the article above. He, I believe, is Asian-American.

ric: Another self righteous WM( married to K-woman) yaking off about whole asian IR scene.

You're right about the WM part. Not sure if I'm self righteous. Probably depends on whom you ask. For the sake of online accuracy, however, I'd just like to point out that my wife is not Korean, but rather Mongolian. I guess this would make me "Another self righteous WM( married to M-woman) yaking off about whole asian IR scene :rolleyes:"

For what it's worth, I generally agree with much of what Dan has to say. I think I noted this on my blog, although my commenters tended to give Dan a hard time, which was really quite a shame. The question I have, though, is how far we're willing to analyze relationships in terms of power. The reason I ask is because some might argue that given power inequalities between men and women in many (if not most) societies, wouldn't that make most male-female relationship based, essentially, on power inequalities? It's just something that I've been mulling over after having read Dan's comments on my blog and his article here.



Re: On ''The Asian Female Mystique'' (Score: 1)
by SheridanPrasso on Sunday, June 19 @ 22:22:27 EDT
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As the author of the book, The Asian Mystique, which prompted Mr. Hong's article and thereby touched off this discussion, I am very happy to see that these issues are being taken up and debated -- exactly my intent as an observer of such dynamics.

I spent several years researching issues of race-ism, fetishism and cross-cultural relationships, and encourage you to pick up my book, particularly the chapters that endeavor to explain where and how stereotypes were created, why they continue to have durability, and their impact in a number of realms, including not only relationships, but business negotiations, foreign policy and East-West relations.

My book is only intended to be the beginning of a dialog and debate that I hope American culture takes up on a national level, so please keep up this discussion -- and do pick up the book!
http://www.sheridanprasso.com/mystique



Re: On ''The Asian Female Mystique'' (Score: 1)
by djarc on Saturday, June 25 @ 14:39:34 EDT
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May I also recommend reading: Asian American Women and Men by Yen Le Espiritu






Re: On ''The Asian Female Mystique'' (Score: 1)
by threepointonefouronefive on Sunday, December 17 @ 23:55:38 EST
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Do you really think that "math club member/computer geek/shy engineer" types are losers? that's a "white" additude if I ever heard one, and probably the biggest reason why the "white" people are falling from their positions of power.


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